Organization vs Players

[muffins]

Hey guys, I haven't posted here in a while but I'm curious how you guys feel about this.

Those of you who've been around since 2k4/2k5ish might be able to understand what I'm asking a bit better.

What has more value to you? A group of players or their organization?

Basically, when coL lost its long-running dream team, I felt myself gravitate toward EG. For so long I'd watched these guys play in-game and rooted for them as they toured the world. It felt wrong to just stop and wait for coL's next CS team. For me the value of the game lies in the players. I recognize that organizations are a great help and Jason has done so much for gaming, but at the end of the day to ME the game is about the players. Before organizations some of these teams were thunking along the highways in a van to play at these tournaments. The support of an organization helps but I do not think it makes the team. Maybe the question would be better suited, "Coach vs Team"

I noticed a lot of people continued to root for coL no matter who the roster was. I'm not saying you're wrong in doing that, but for me personally it felt weird. I felt like I was just rooting for Jason to pick the best players moreso than I was actually rooting for the team. It felt wrong for me to only support a team because they joined up with a certain organization. To me, I feel like I should support the players that I love. If all of the sudden most of 3Ds old roster joined up under the coL name I would feel like a sheep for simply supporting them now that they weren't tagging 3D.

So my question to you is, what do you value more? The players or the organization?

[coL|aMies]

It all depends on the connection you have. I myself have a deeper connection to coL as an organization, however when the original CS team left, I was devastated. I felt torn, as this is the team I watched and supported for years. Once I got passed the shock of not having the team around, I was able to realize that my loyalty was with coL itself and not a group of players. I suppose this comes from being a fan of professional sports teams.

For example, I am a New York Giants fan. I have always been, and will always be. I have seen many superstar players come and go and times when the teams were god awful, but I am a true fan. No matter who is suiting up, it's still the Giants I am rooting for. Granted, if I have a connection with a former player, I might root for them as an individual with their respective teams, but I would never change my loyalties.

[evolution]

I think that both are equally important to each other. Without organizations like compLexity I know for a fact given the expenses of being in my early twenties (and im sure a lot of other players would agree) I would not be able to afford all of these opportunities to travel the world. Also look at it this way. When I root for my favorite sports team, say take the Phillies for example, regardless of the players who always come and go and who I will enjoy watching on other teams. I will always be first and foremost a fan of the organization itself. While I know this is not as easy in CS as things are not localized, but just some food for thought :P

edit : Amies stole my analogy. >

[muffins]

Haha well I think this is where I might have a hard time understanding as I don't watch sports. E-Sports caught me because its something where you can play just like the pros and even in the same leagues as them. Its much more relatable to me.

@evolution: yeah I can totally see how big of a deal a bigger organization is for someone who could never afford the expenses of travel, room and board, food, etc... I'm just curious where people draw the line. As you can imagine you have fans that will follow you no matter where you go, but then there are some who would stay behind if you left coL. I'm just curious what makes people choose these different paths.

[Portland]

No one needs to "draw a line". You like who you like and you don't take sides if two of them get in a petty fight because they'll make up sooner than you know it but you'll still be looking like n ass. You can have your cake(or pie) and eat it too, you don't have to pick and choose.

[jdubya`]

I think jason lake said it best...and i'm paraphrasing of course " complexity is not just a gaming organization its a dream " --- i am loyal to complexity. Do i have my favorite players, yes definitely. But i'll always root for complexity

[SeizeTheDay]

I see myself as a PLAYER orientated person also. BUT on the flip side of that, i have talked to jason lake, I have talked to the admins on the coL staff. I have only talked to STORM as the og coL roster goes, and he is the only player I really got to play with A LOT, of course frod came and played with us a few times also. But I mean Storm would play with us. tell us we did something wrong, and not YELL just being the nice pro that he is ya know. So I mean, Its like I can talk with the COMPLEXITY guys more, and I am on here everyday and check all the forums and its great. Some of the players do get a BIG HEAD and dont really care if you like them or not. But kinda off topic, lol the point is I have been fallowing complexity since they where in cal-main WAY back when, and I am still here so i guess now its the organization.

[muffins]

No one needs to "draw a line". You like who you like and you don't take sides if two of them get in a petty fight because they'll make up sooner than you know it but you'll still be looking like n ass. You can have your cake(or pie) and eat it too, you don't have to pick and choose.

Eh...what? You seem to be really mad about something, man. You do choose a side when it comes down to your favorite players vs your favorite organization in an actual match. I'm just curious as to how the other side sees it since I'm a player oriented sort of person.

I'm not against coL at all. Its my favorite organization and I immensely appreciate all the stuff that Jake has sacrificed and all the good hes done for us. I don't dislike or hate or even think less of coL. Its not like that at all.

Peakz has a good example that I'd like to work from. He spent serious quality time with the main coL players and followed them for a long time. What I was trying to find out was why people, when match time comes, side with whomever.

All your posts gave me some insight definitely. I think for some people its about the players and for others its about the idea behind an organization.

[NuahcerpeL]

for me its always been about the players..... even the long time coL fans were more about supporting the team, and with that they supported the organization. For the past 3 years or so ive been a huge "fanboy" call it wat u want of the Turmoil/x3o/Gravitas/Turmoil team. They were a westcoast team, that always seemed to have their shit together despite using ringers for the majority of their major LAN appearances (mainly with gravitas and turmoil-2nd time). They were always prepared, even when they were considered the underdog. There was a span of a year or so when they were considered the 3rd best team in america, dispute them never losing on LAN to coL or EG, which i thought was odd, cause online seems random wit terrible pings and advantages here or there. But if they (hostile, gfn, impulsive, thomz, perez, adrenaline, ben, patyojon) were to reform today (which they wont) i'd jump back on their bandwagon. This was why i was excited to see EG play wit GFN and the most recently dropped coL lineup play wit impulsivE. To me its about making some sort of connection with the players on a team, and that translating into some sort of profitable margin for the organization. Obviously this is why the players use certain products and such forth, but in the end they do need each other, but in my opinion the organizations need the players more than the players need the organization.